October 17, 2022 • Paul Rodden • Season: 2022 • Episode: 0
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Welcome to The Hydrogen Podcast!
Special Interview Series – Andy Marsh / Plug Power – I had the great privilege to interview Andy Marsh, the CEO of Plug Power. We met up at the Reuters Event: Hydrogen North America 2022 and he graciously sat down with me to detail the current vision of Plug Power. It was a fascinating conversation and I think everyone should pay attention to what he is saying. They are successfully executing their hydrogen strategy and if you are looking to operate in the hydrogen economy, pay attention to the gold nuggets that Andy gives us. There are some million dollar ideas hidden in between the lines. Also, Plug is hosting a green hydrogen symposium on Oct 18th-19th and you can attend digitally. Check out more info at their website www.plugpower.com. Background: Andy Marsh joined Plug as President and CEO in April 2008. Under his leadership, Plug is a leading innovator in the renewable energy field, helping to create the first commercially viable market for green hydrogen and fuel cell (HFC) technology. After successful endeavors to commercialize HFC technology in the material handling industry, customers such as Amazon and Walmart, turned to Plug to develop world-class hydrogen solutions that solve every step of operations, which led Plug to build an end-to-end green hydrogen ecosystem. Under his leadership, Plug’s revenue increased by more than 296% since 2012 and has landed Plug on Deloitte’s Technology Fast 500TM list in both 2015 and 2016. Previously, Marsh was a co-founder of Valere Power, where he served as CEO and Board Member from the company’s inception in 2001 and through its sale to Eltek ASA in 2007. During his leadership, Valere grew into a profitable global operation with more than 200 employees and $90 million in revenue derived from the sale of DC power products to the telecommunications sector. Prior to founding Valere, he spent almost 18 years with Lucent Bell Laboratories in a variety of sales and technical management positions. Marsh is chairman of the Fuel Cell and Hydrogen Energy Association and a member of the Hydrogen Council. He holds a master’s in electrical engineering from Duke University and a master’s in business administration from SMU. Recently, Marsh has played an instrumental role working alongside Members of Congress to support the Inflation Reduction Act legislation, including conversations with Sen. Schumer, Sen. Manchin and others, as well as testifying to the U.S. Senate Committee on Energy and Natural Resources in July 2022.
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Respectfully,
Paul Rodden
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Transcript:
Paul Rodden 0:00
So the big questions in the energy industry today are, how is hydrogen the primary driving force behind the evolution of energy? Where is capital being deployed for hydrogen projects globally? And where are the best investment opportunities for early adopters who recognize the importance of hydrogen? I will address the critical issues and give you the information you need to deploy capital. Those are the questions that will unlock the potential of hydrogen. And this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Paul Rodden, and welcome to the hydrogen podcast.
Paul Rodden 0:29
Hi, this is Paul and I want to welcome you back to the hydrogen Podcast. Today I have the very special privilege of talking to Andy Marsh, the CEO of plug power plug is leading the charge in every aspect of the hydrogen economy. They are building a global end to end green hydrogen ecosystem to produce transport store and deliver green hydrogen to customers around the world and creating the first commercially viable market for hydrogen fuel cell technology. The company has deployed more than 50,000 fuel cell systems for E mobility more than anyone else in the world and is the largest buyer of liquid hydrogen. I think Andy has done a fantastic job guiding the company to where it is today. And I believe they are creating the blueprint for success in a hydrogen economy. Sir, thank you for taking the time to meet with us. It is great to have you on the show.
Andy Marsh 1:18
It’s a pleasure to be here, Paul, and I’m looking forward to our conversation.
Paul Rodden 1:22
Me too. If it’s okay with you, I’d like to jump right into discussing your vision for plug. You are successfully executing a plan to build out a global end to end green hydrogen ecosystem, would you mind outlining your vision for us and talking about what progress you’ve made so far?
Andy Marsh 1:39
S o Paul, if you take a step back, you can’t just one problem in this whole hydrogen economy, you have to have a way to generate the green hydrogen, you have to have a way to move the green hydrogen, you have to have the fueling stations, you have to have usages for that hydrogen. And plug, you know is really taking is really, you know, by ourselves and with others, who are JV partners really been focusing on building out, as you mentioned, the complete ecosystem. We’re building, for example, a green hydrogen network across United States, which will be over 500 tons a year by 2025. We have plants are being built in New York and Georgia and Louisiana, California, Texas, all to create green hydrogen. And we’re looking at about 13. More between now and 2025. We have a logistic network we built we have about 40 trucks on the road today, delivering hydrogen, we have the trailers that are delivering those cryogenic trailers designed and built by plug we have a company that can turn it into liquid. We also I think more important have the applications. We’re doing large scale stationary products that can be used to backup data centers, charge electric vehicles, as well as provide continuous power we have on road vehicles that we’ve done with we’re now a leader in electrification, you’re been doing it for 20 years. And we putting fuel cells in forklift trucks, a lot of other things. airplanes, you name it. Trains, you know, be a good title for a movie, maybe. But yeah, that’s what so we’ve done a lot, Paul.
Paul Rodden 3:16
So the next phase going on, what is it that you’re concentrating on?
Andy Marsh 3:21
Well, I think there’s an execution aspect that becomes more and more important. But geographical expansion, as well as thinking through potentially exporting green hydrogen or green ammonia is certainly very high on our priority list. I spent the last two weeks in Europe, where the concerns about national security and having energy there all the time are real. And there is aggressive plans. For example, we’re working with a company called h2 energy, who’s building a gigawatt worth of electrolyte, you know, gigawatt plant to base on plugs. electrolyzers in Denmark, you know, that’s a lot of work going on that in complete European expansion, thinking about generating hydrogen in Northern Europe. And will we ever plant we’re building in Antwerp, Bruges at the moment, as well as in southern Europe, where the sun shines for the wind blows, and the sun shines, Paul, Europe and the United States are really the two key areas. We’re looking at him focusing, and I think a lot of more work. If I was thinking where we’re going in the future, green ammonia is part of that.
Paul Rodden 4:26
Excellent. Are you targeting any specific industries or companies in the next phase of your plan? Or is it about growing the entire ecosystem as a whole?
Andy Marsh 4:37
I would say we’re focused. I’m always listening, Paul. So I know it’s I’m not going to tie myself into a corner and say, I’m just doing that but you know, we are really focused on certain applications. Now, data centers, for example, we had a huge activity with Microsoft for the first big plan. We’re talking to all the big data set center operators around the world. You know, I think a lot of our activity is really focused on filling in, and customer development. But during that customer development, you know, more and more partners are coming into play. I mean, I met with Airbus here today at the show. And, you know, we’re looking to, we’ve announced that we’re looking how we do a hydrogen hub, right at an airport for hydrogen airplanes, which is really cool. So you know, there’s lots and we’re doing things with small partners, I have lots of EPCs we work with, as well as technology developers, like united to hydrogen, which is going to put regional aircraft out, we’re doing things that are probably more applicable and 2023. And some things which will be really applicable and 2035. So we have a real broad range of activities we have going on.
Paul Rodden 5:49
And when I got started doing the hydrogen stuff, everyone was talking about, you know, 2040 2050, it seems like that timeframe is just been cut in half…
Andy Marsh 5:59
I may not be alive by then. So that’s not really that. I actually want to see it now.
Paul Rodden 6:03
Yeah, that’s people in my life are saying the same thing. I don’t think I’ll be alive for it happens, the timeframe, all this stuffis just…
Andy Marsh 6:09
…you’ll be alive. You’re younger, you’re younger, they’ve seen you before they even though this is just…
Paul Rodden 6:16
Is Plug looking to work with smaller entities to help produce hydrogen, or provide other support roles in the marketplace? Or are you looking at keeping everything in house?
Andy Marsh 6:25
Oh, I think if you look at what we’ve done recently, we have people who were developing technology with like United hydrogen, which is small. We’re working with a green steel producer in Europe, which is really cool. And we made a small investment to help them get going. We’ve We’ve invested in small project developers that help us find good real estate and good renewable electricity. We deal with big partners to large EPC, small EPC. We’ve gone from, you know, having to do it ourselves. Yeah, because nobody else cared right now we were, you know, it’s bad when you’re the only one that’s in the market who care to a company that’s focused on, you know, joint ventures, you know, SK Acciona, just two examples, Renault you know, to folks where we’re making investments in their companies who are usually smaller companies, to large and small EPCs. Now, with our business with distribution centers, we actually support a lot of smaller EPCs, which aren’t household names, but help create jobs in those local communities.
Paul Rodden 7:28
Yeah, on the show, I talk a lot about cars just because I’m a car guy. And when there renault announcement came out, I was floored, I loved it, you know, up until that time, it was Toyota and Hyundai. Yeah. And now to know that there’s a French company who’s going to be bringing that directly into Europe, I thought was amazing. And so the fact that you’re working with Renault, I think is going to be huge, not just as an announcement, but I mean, in the next five years, that’s going to take off even more. Now. I can imagine the kind of growth you’re already experiencing, but everything else that you’ve the foundation that you’ve already laid in the last two years or so, that’s going to take off, it’s unbelievable.
Andy Marsh 8:08
We really are at an inflection point. Yeah. Here’s a lot of macro economic drivers. You have the real commitment by countries and companies to reach net zero, right? And they’re not doing it because they’re altruistic. They’re doing it because the people listening to this show today are demanding that from their, from the people who service then I think also you have this huge opportunity to create jobs. You know, people want to use this as opportunity create jobs in the new economy. Right. And that’s driving people. And I think the third item is this Ukraine war. You can’t underestimate. People don’t want to be held hostage by lunatics. Yeah, I think lunatics is a lunatic is the right word. And you can’t let Russia or any other totalitarian government dictates how we live. Right? You know, I, you know, I think about I was in Netherlands for a party two weeks ago, and I’m watching the party. And, you know, they were behaving just like us in the free world behave. And I said to myself, that’s what we’re protecting the joy of living. And that’s why it’s so important that we all become energy independent. I love that. And that’s really where we’re, what we need to do.
Paul Rodden 9:35
I really love that and to kind of pivot a little bit and something that you touched on on your talk this morning is the inflation Reduction Act. Yeah, has included some incentives, enticing people to get into green hydrogen production. In your view, are there any challenges or issues the industry will need to overcome in order to scale quickly and effectively?
Andy Marsh 9:55
Oh, I, I think about two things every day. All right, where are we going to get the power, and where’s the land. And that, you know, I don’t view it as a technology challenge, I view it as how you put the pieces together. And to be most effective for the long term, you have to find low cost sources of renewable energy, I think that’s a big opportunity that you have to address, you have to have the land to be able to have both the plants and the ability to generate the hydrogen. And finally, we shouldn’t really discount how we transport hydrogen. Today, we transport in liquid form. And I believe a liquid even for short distances, will become more and more required. But we need pure hydrogen pipelines. I testified in front of the senator management committee discussing that. But that can dramatically cut the cost of transporting hydrogen by a factor 10. Yeah, and that’s the one of the ingredients that’s going to be critical for this hydrogen economy to become a trillion dollar opportunity.
Paul Rodden 11:03
And, you know, I do talk to a lot of midstream companies who are interested in hydrogen transportation, using pipelines for that, you know, what, what’s the appropriate amount right now to put into natural gas lines, what type of materials need to be established and come to market that can handle hydrogen, solely hydrogen through the pipelines? So I don’t hear a lot of chatter on that. So the fact that you’re involved can it gives me a good feeling, knowing that someone of your stature is actually in there talking about pipeline transport,
Andy Marsh 11:32
and you’re talking about the United States. Yeah. And there are people involved in the United States who are looking at actually how to replace a natural gas pipeline today. And we do have projects going on with injecting hydrogen and natural gas pipelines, much more aggressive in Europe. In Denmark, they’re looking to build 30 gigawatts by 2030. of wind power in the Baltics to bring that down into Western Europe. And they can more cost effectively move molecules, you know, at least by a factor of two, yeah, then electricity, right. So they were looking to generate hydrogen in northern Denmark, build a pipeline into Germany to support Germany’s the German mobility needs. Same as going on in Finland, same is going on in Sweden, where they have rich resources of hydroelectric power. I had a great meeting last Tuesday with a minister, parliamentary minister in Sweden, at the EU, Parliament. So all that’s really going on. And here in the US, there are companies we’re talking to about how you convert natural gas pipelines to hydrogen, it will happen. But it is something that, you know, if I could wave a magic wand, I would take all the DoE hub money and put it into building pipelines across the US. costs will come down on top of the inflation Reduction Act, the apps will be there. That’s how I would do it. But I wasn’t elected president. So I got to do what I’m doing.
Paul Rodden 13:11
We will have to write your name.
Andy Marsh 13:11
Yeah. ANDY. MARSH for your audience out there.
Paul Rodden 13:19
You know, you mentioned pipeline to a while back, we had Mike Lewis at UT who’s heading up the h2o at scale project. Yeah, you’re in Texas. And that was one of the things that they focused in on, you know, if they did a green hydrogen project in the Permian, what’s the best way to get that energy to the Gulf Coast? And they said, you know, the difference between a pipeline and running copper cable, that distance was at least a factor of 10. Difference? Yeah, there,
Andy Marsh 13:43
you know, I used to factor of two. Yeah. But I was being conservative. I’m known as a conservative in this industry. But I’ve seen studies which have suggested a factor 10. Also. Yeah, it’s a big is a big deal.
Paul Rodden 13:57
So plug is one of the largest buyers of liquid hydrogen currently, yet, you’re in the process of pivoting the company to be a major producer of green hydrogen, why start producing the hydrogen yourself?
Andy Marsh 14:11
Well, it was pretty simple. I probably three, four years ago, started looking at it. You know, the commitment, quite honestly, to help drive this industry from a cost perspective was not really apparent in the industry. The plants in the United States that are liquid are actually really old. Yeah. And quite honestly, not at all. Not always reliable. Which makes you know, which is a reason we build our own logistic network because of those issues. And my investors, you know, when you start looking at how we maximize the profits for plug, that’s really critical. And finally, people like Amazon and Walmart saying to me, I want green hydrogen. Yeah. And nobody else had it. So we had to, we had to make it ourselves.
Paul Rodden 14:54
Yeah, I guess we’re a lot of their distribution centers are it’s would be closest to a great hire. And,
Unknown Speaker 15:00
yeah, there’s no such there’s very, very little green hydrogen in the world. Yeah. And that’s about the change and plug is making the change the amount of I can, I can tell you that the plant we’re building and brews, we haven’t even made a sales call yet. And our funnel is 10 times your capacity to that point. So it you know what, it’s one of these days, we’re gonna have to make a sales call, see what we can do?
Paul Rodden 15:28
Oh, that’s, that’s a good problem to have
Andy Marsh 15:30
is a good problem to have, Paul.
Paul Rodden 15:32
So I’m curious about your thoughts. He brought this up a little bit on the labor market. Yeah. As we aggressively build out the hydrogen infrastructure in the United States over the coming years. What job types do you think will be needed most? And also, what type of employee is Plug looking for as you scale your ecosystem?
Andy Marsh 15:52
Good question, Paul in its, you know, the skill sets that exist in the oil and gas industry are completely applicable to these plants. We’re building things. So these people know, you know, the oil gas folks know how to manage large quantities of water. Would you need for electrolyzer how to separate gas, how to put electrolyzers on an ocean, in oceans, you know, we’re already doing a study. So probably today about 20 Not even study, we’re actually doing 25% of my employees actually worked in the oil and gas industries at some time. And then you start looking at the other skill sets we have now. Great mechanical engineers, and electrical engineers come from all sorts of different industries. Now, we have lots of people from the nuclear power industry. You want folks also who are engaged in safety? Yeah. And you know, in all those industries have the right skill sets, right. I mean, here in Houston, you know, today plug has about 350 employees, and all of them are oil and gas people. And we’re really fortunate that they’ve joined. So I would say to folks that we can help you make that transition. Yeah, the folks that, you know, I had, you know, organization, the Netherlands, that we acquired, which was 100%, oil and gas in 18 months, we’ve made 0%, oil and gas, and 100%. Renewable. So you got the right skills, if you’re in that industry, the transition.
Paul Rodden 17:20
Yeah. And I think you’ll be sensitive to this, and was one of the things that I talked about when I was talking about labor. And that’s industry risk. Yeah, it was the oil and gas being so cyclical. I see hydrogen as being much more stable. And you know, those people who are, you know, out on those oil rigs who do know how to actually work the equipment, you know, gas, natural gas prices, tank, and all of a sudden are out of a job. I don’t think that kind of situation is going to happen in hydrogen.
Andy Marsh 17:46
Yeah, I think it’s going to be I think it’s really interesting. If you really think about it, you’re not going to have the large changes in cost, right, that you’re going to see. I mean, the solar and wind projects are just going to come down and costs and continue to be more competitive. But the variability of the hydrogen produced from renewable sources will be nothing like what you see today. So you know, I think and look, what’s going to be that, you know, if you think about the growth rate of the renewable economy, you know, they talk about great work, I think I mentioned earlier done by Princeton, you know, which essentially says you got to build an rebuilt the complete us electrical network, right? And then do it twice. So, if you’re 30 years old, you probably got a job for life, unless you want to work to 2100, which you probably don’t want to, if you go into renewable energy, and you go into hydrogen, right, the growth is just going to be spectacular.
Paul Rodden 18:51
Yeah, I think we’re on the same page with that. Yeah. Okay, so switching gears a little bit. PLUG is doing a great job on the sales front. We’ve talked about sales a little bit, you’ve secured huge deals with Amazon, Walmart, and Microsoft. Can you walk us through the process on how you approach the three those those big three companies, and how those deals worked out?
Andy Marsh 19:11
Two of those companies you name came to me. But you know, if I think about Microsoft, and by the way, all three companies you mentioned have great, talented individuals. But Microsoft really has a vision, how they get to, you know, their goal is not only to be net zero, but eliminateall of their emissions all the way going back to 1976. So pretty aggressive goes. And they have really senior advanced technical people designing what the next generation data centers can be. And they start talking to us I can remember I think I met them for the first time at in 2018 at a at a hydrogen conference. We sat down and talked and we talked about what plug could do for them. And we went out and worked with them to build a three megawatt plant to meet, you know, the started their vision. Yeah. And you know what these large backup stationary products will be a data centers. I think for this, you know, in the future they will become peaker plants to support the electrical network. And beyond that is a cost of hydrogen comes down. One and there’s been good work done at UC Irvine in this area, you can actually envision hydrogen being used as a as the energy that can feed a datacenter. Yeah, directly. And if you think about why we talked about copper costs might be a lot lower cost to just run hydrogen piping versus running electrical piping. Yeah. And having fuel cells embedded in their, in their servers. Absolutely. That’s probably that’s probably is a long out item. Yeah, you know, backup and peaker plants are first, but ultimately a pure hydrogen datacenter. And we actually have people we’re talking to about it ultimately may be the right solution.
Paul Rodden 21:01
Oh, fantastic. Yeah. And yeah, I can see that too. Just as your with with the fuel cells in place. There’s also a lot less upkeep maintenance. Gears aren’t freezing seals don’t wear out issues that can also be resolved by replacing diesel generators with those with those fuel cells.
Andy Marsh 21:19
Oh, I don’t know why anybody would ever use a diesel generator again. You know, it’s you know, I mean, think about it. Why do people want to go to electric vehicles? There’s a clean aspects, but quite honestly, they’re going to be lower costs ownership. Yeah. Because there’s fewer moving parts, you know, simple maintenance. Right, you know, great, better performance. Right, right. I mean, same thing with fuel cells in a data centers. I mean, you know, they’re going to start up diesel center diesel gensets are notorious for being unreliable. So I agree with you, Paul. Do you have an order to place that would help me?
Paul Rodden 21:58
Everyone in my neighborhood generator for backups? Hey, we had during during Snow-vid. Last year, we all ran out of power and the grid failed. You live down here in Texas? Yes, I’m in The Woodlands here in Houston. And it was we just couldn’t handle that that cold weather here. We didn’t know how to deal with it. Yep. And it was people who were lucky enough to have a generator had where they we got our fridges working and everything else. But no, I mean, to see in the future where we can have a fuel cell in every house and hydrogen piped right into it.
Andy Marsh 22:31
So you know, you bring up an interesting point. And it didn’t strike me until the evacuation last week in Florida. Now. I don’t know how you do that with batteries, right? I think fuel cell electric vehicles or fuel cell hybrid vehicles would be the only way you can move millions people away from an emergency in a hurricane. Oh, you’re we’re gonna be best friends. Yeah, I think people like yourself who live in Texas. You know, who live close to the Gulf. Yeah. When these hurricanes come through and you want to escape? You need a fuel cell electric vehicle, not a battery electric vehicle.
Paul Rodden 23:07
I agree. Yeah, I completely agree. So back to the three deals, those are huge deals for you. What’s next? I mean, your team has set the bar pretty high. You know, how are you going to top that?
Andy Marsh 23:20
Well, our sales funnel look, you know what a sales funnel. There’s a lot of people say they want to buy thing. How many buyers when they come out? is always a question. But our sales funnel for electrolyzers is $28 billion dollars. 28 billion amazing. You know, you saw you ran into my sales guy in the hall here. And you know, I said to him, Did you listen to my speech today? And he said no, because he had customers who wanted to talk to him. He has his priorities. Priorities wrong, Paul. But when you think about that, you know, that business will be largest business we have in the next year. Yeah. And you know, this last year was a couple million dollar will be a pretty decent business next year. There’ll be a huge, huge business. People want the built a green hydrogen for their operations. A lot of these deals are with fertilizers, cement, steel, not the… making bottles, not the most, you know, what you think about, you know, the sexiest applications or the worst that glamours but, you know, that represents as much of the carbon footprint of the world as mobility 26% It’s something that has to happen and they’re hard to abate. They’re hard to abate and hydrogen can do it. Hydrogen can do it. Yeah, I guess that’s why your podcast podcast called hydrogen podcast Yeah, it’s really good. You got it right, Paul.
Paul Rodden 24:45
Okay, so I do want to highlight the Microsoft deal for a moment. I talked about this on a podcast at length, but I want to make sure people understand how big that is. Plug just successfully built and tested a fuel cell that will revolutionize backup power generator Shouldn’t for data centers. That means we no longer have to rely on diesel generators. And I mentioned that previously. But when do you think this will roll out? This will start to roll out on this concept for data centers. Are there discussions with Microsoft to start the transition?
Andy Marsh 25:13
Yes. So I can go into and I think I mentioned earlier, that it’s not only Microsoft, yeah, all the major data center operators, you’ll probably see more and hear more about in the coming year. So it’s not that far out. Whenever it happens, send them our way. Well, I will send it that way. Paul, you gave on the hydrogen podcast that will be the place where we make all our major announcements.
Paul Rodden 25:42
So I think one of the most fascinating things that I like about plug is that under your leadership is the level of execution for your scope and vision of the hydrogen economy. I can’t think of another company that’s embraced their role as a leader in hydrogen as well as plug has, I’m extremely interested in hearing your viewpoint on what you think the future of height of the hydrogen economy will look like? What does the future hold for plug power, but also the rest of the hydrogen industry?
Andy Marsh 26:09
I think this is really important for your listeners to know. It really starts with the generation of hydrogen. Yeah, the apps aren’t all that. I shouldn’t simplify the apps. But the apps are not as challenging. Yeah. Because if you have the energy, you know, fuel cells work, right. But when I look at it, as an American, you know, we talked on the inflation Reduction Act. Yeah, I believe America’s taken a step, to really be the dominant provider of hydrogen and green ammonia throughout the world, we have access to the lowest cost of renewable energy, we have the land, which in Europe is a much, much bigger problem we have in this country policy that supports it. So United States, and I really am glad it happened is that we essentially reached energy independence with using fossil fuels, we’re going to be energy independent for renewable power, and also become a net exporter of that energy, that’s really valuable. And by also being a leader in that industry, it will also accelerate apps, that plug as well as other companies will be leveraging that cost effective green hydrogen and green ammonia, from everything from peaker plants, to even continuous run plants to mobility applications. Now, it will be 20% of world’s energy will come from hydrogen by 2050. And maybe sooner, and the US has really positioned itself as a unique leader. Now, I made these comments at a big event in France, and I was on the panel with folks from around the world. And nobody disagreed with me that the best place to make hydrogen, green hydrogen and green ammonia is in the good ol USA. I agree. Yeah.
Paul Rodden 28:05
Well, this has been an incredible conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to meet with me.
Andy Marsh 28:11
It was… I enjoyed it, Paul, and I look forward and listen to you and me talking together?
Paul Rodden 28:17
We’re gonna we’re gonna just celebrate this. Alright, everyone. One last thing to mention. Plug Power has a special symposium coming up soon. And I want you to check it out. It’s a hybrid event hosted by the plugs Innovation Center and Gigafactory in Rochester, New York from October 18. To the 19th. You can join us as a digital attendee to see green hydrogen at work. You visit their website at plugpower.com to get details. Thanks, everyone. Take care. Stay safe. I’ll talk to you later. Hey, this is Paul. I hope you liked this podcast. If you did and want to hear more. I’d appreciate it if you would either subscribe to this channel on YouTube, or connect with your favorite platform through my website at www.thehydrogenpodcast.com. Thanks for listening. I very much appreciate it. Have a great day.
