INTERVIEW THP03: Don Owens / HNO GreenFuels – LeefH2 Generator System Cuts Diesel Generator Pollution In Half! An Inexpensive Climate Game Changer That Can Implemented NOW!!

November 23, 2021 • Paul Rodden • Season: 2021 • Episode: SIS03

Welcome to The Hydrogen Podcast!

Special Interview Series – THP03: Don Owens / HNO GreenFuels – Join me for a special interview where we discuss new technology that can have a major impact and be implemented at the beginning of the energy transition. The LeefH2 generator system can be added on to any engine or generator and not only increase fuel efficiency but help cut down particulate matter by up to 50%. This add-on technology has incredible potential not just for motor vehicles but all heavy machinery, large scale generators, and transport.

Thank you for listening and I hope you enjoy the podcast. Please feel free to email me at with any questions. Also, if you wouldn’t mind subscribing to my podcast using your preferred platform… I would greatly appreciate it.

Paul Rodden




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Paul Rodden 0:00
Hey, everyone. Welcome to the hydrogen podcast. Joining me today is a great person, Don Owens, who is the CEO and President of HNO GreenFuels to discuss his company, and a great product he has out now for the industry that can be used today. We’re going to dive into that now. So the big questions in the energy industry today are, how is hydrogen the primary driving force behind the evolution of energy? Where is capital being deployed for hydrogen projects globally? And where are the best investment opportunities for early adopters who recognize the importance of hydrogen? I will address the critical issues and give you the information you need to deploy capital. Those are the questions that will unlock the potential of hydrogen. And this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Paul Rodden. And welcome to the hydrogen podcast. Don, thank you so much for being here. Let me do a quick intro for you. Don Owens is a leading hydrogen expert in hydrogen related engine and energy technologies, and is the president and CEO of HNO GreenFuels, he has dedicated the last decade to creating a customized hydrogen solution that’s broadly applicable for everything that burns fuel with its purpose to drastically reduce black carbon emissions. Welcome, Don. It’s great to be here.

Don Owens 1:18
Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. Looking forward to discussions.

Paul Rodden 1:23
Absolutely. Okay, before we dive into much, tell me a little bit about your background. And what led you to start HNO green fuels and what your company specializes in.

Don Owens 1:36
Okay, great. Good question. I in fact, my background is in engineering, although and also have a legal background. But neither one of them was the impetus for starting this company. It turns out that a few years ago, I ran into a book, I guess it was a 1980. Hmm, what was that 1998 or something I don’t know, somewhere around, I ran into this book that talked about using hydrogen to save money on fuel, or save money on gasoline. And at the time, it was a system where you could use water, they said you can use water to save gas. And so it was a system that use water to produce hydrogen gas, and then you use that gas to help your engine to run better. Now, I spent years trying to develop that product, it was an alkaline electrolysis product that I found out after developing it, that it would never be commercialized. That system could never be commercialized for the application I wanted, because it was too complicated to operate. But a few years later, while I was in the middle of trying to develop it, I ran into another way of making hydrogen, something called P E M electrolysis, which is a very, very clean, easy way to do it. But but it still had to be adapted to my technology. So that’s how I started kind of got started building a system that I put on my car. And I was able to see some improvement on my fuel economy. Even though the testing that I use was very ad hoc, you know, back in those days, you can actually fill up your gas tank, all the way to the lip all the way to the brim. You can’t do that anymore, by the way, anymore. Yeah, you can top off and literally take off and drive the same route over and over and over again and actually see an improvement one time with the device running one time with devices not running. And that can actually see a proven on on the fuel account. And that’s how it did it dawned on me that I could probably save gas.

Paul Rodden 3:36
So that was that was kind of like your lightbulb moment.

Don Owens 3:38
Yeah, that was a lightbulb moment and said, hey, you know, I think I need to take this to a lab to see if what I’m seeing is real. Because, you know, even though I saw that improvement, you couldn’t, you couldn’t use it. You know, I couldn’t use that anywhere. Just say hey, listen, trust me, I fill up a gas tank, and that thing worked. And so we took it to an engine testing lab. And I remember when I went to that lab, the the operator of the lab, kind of warned me said, you know, Don, we’ve seen these hydrogen devices before, and none of them worked. And I don’t want you to be mad at us for spending a lot of money, because you’re going to spend some money testing this. And everything that I’ve ever seen, never worked. And so I said, Okay, well, I think this might be a little bit different. Because, you know, I’ve found a few things out, and I needed to find out for myself weither it was going to work or not. So the very first test that I did, and I hope I don’t mind, you don’t mind going through all this detail. But the very first test that I did, I took two units or two of the units that I developed, because I knew the more hydrogen you had, the better the fuel economy was going to be. At least that was my mistake,

Paul Rodden 4:54

Don Owens 4:56
Anybody would think and so consequently, fortunately for me, when I went in there, I went in there with the mindset of testing one device and testing two devices together. So, so obviously, I started off with the two devices together. And once they did test the test was was lousy. I mean, I had maybe a 1% improvement on my fuel economy. It was definitely nothing to write home about what I

Paul Rodden 5:23
…noticed in your in your prior tests.

Don Owens 5:24
Yeah, that’s right. It wasn’t anything. And in the prior tests, I didn’t, I didn’t have two, to test only had one. So when I went with the two because I had a big engine, so I figured two would work. But it didn’t. But so because I had decided that I was not going to leave until I tested one and two, I went ahead and tested one. I said, Well, let’s go ahead and test one. And let me get ready to get out of here. Because I had really thought it was kind of over. But once we set up the one, and this was on a Chevy Suburban with the 5.2, gasoline, that’s some kind of larger engine. It we had a 25% improvement on fuel economy on gas kind of 25%. And that was a wake up call because it dawned on me why because we will produce and we have to produce hydrogen by the engine, you know, so we were we were using the engine to produce hydrogen. And the more hydrogen we were producing the more drain on the engine we were creating gratia on the on the engine said, hey, look, we’re not gonna give you a fuel economy because you you’re pulling a trailer. Okay, yeah, in effect. And so once I went to one unit, the amperage, went down to a half and went out about four amps. And it actually saw and I actually could see the improvement on the fuel economy. 25% That’s great. It was unbelievable.

Paul Rodden 6:44

Don Owens 6:45
And it dawned on me that, that what I was thinking was wrong. And I can see now why anybody that went into that lab to test would always be testing with too much hydrogen. That’s why it never worked. And and, and even with my case, if I had my druthers, I wouldn’t have gone in there with a with a system that produce such little hydrogen. In fact, I was a little upset that I couldn’t find anything that made more, I actually had contracted with someone to, to build something for me, that would have made more, but they happen to fail in building what I wanted. So I had to go in there and test what I had. And what I had turned out to be perfect. It turned out to be the exact amount of hydrogen that I needed.

Paul Rodden 7:30
I think I think that’s a great story in that not just did you go in with a certain amount of expectations that you came out, you pursued even after people were telling you that it’s not going to work?

Don Owens 7:41

Paul Rodden 7:42
But you ended up coming out with understanding that the more isn’t always better than that it does take kind of more of a customized solution for a gas engine, a diesel engine, a bigger diesel engine, a smaller diesel engine, that you can really tweak this system that you’ve developed and designed to accommodate a multitude of applications.

Don Owens 8:03

Paul Rodden 8:04
And I think I think that’s a great story. I think that’s a great start to a phenomenal business.

Don Owens 8:11

Paul Rodden 8:12
Go ahead.

Don Owens 8:12
Let me just say one thing. It turned out that diesel’s was totally different. You know, it turned out that most diesel engines have alternators that can run refrigerators.

Paul Rodden 8:26

Don Owens 8:26
So the amount of power that you produce somebody saying that diesel engine would not care, whereas with a gasoline engine, it did care. And so you had and so that’s that, but that’s what I found out. So when I actually went, Well, what happened with the gasoline engines was that I had such inconsistency with the sizes of engines that I really still didn’t have anything that I could really say would work all the time, unless I decided that I was only going to go after a certain size engine. So I tested all kinds of sizes, all kinds of variations of hydrogen, with all types of different engines, but I never saw any consistent results. And so one day, the one day, that technician came up to me after I’ve spent all this money and said, Hey, listen, you want to try diesel engines? My response was, why not? So I said, Okay, listen, why not? And when we did test diesels, I thought, the same philosophy of less is better, less is more, because less was more with the gasoline. Right. But when when we did one with the diesel, we saw an improvement, very little or no improvement on gas economy. And then we did two we saw even it still wasn’t anything to write home about or gas economy. But what happened was after the test, the technician came up to me and said, Oh, by the way, you know this thing, reduced your particulate matter emissions by almost 50%.

Paul Rodden 9:56
Ah, there’s something right there.

Don Owens 9:59
Now particulate matter was a huge problem with diesel engines, it causes pollution, it causes respiratory problems, it causes health issues. It’s, you know, diesel engines are dirty because of particulate matter. And what particular matter is, is unburned fuel fuel that is not burned during combustion, and it ends up going into the atmosphere. And that unburned fuel is what causes all kinds of pollution and all kinds of respiratory problems.

Paul Rodden 10:28
Really glad you brought that up. That kind of brings me into my second point that I wanted to bring up is that your technology directly addresses that issue.

Don Owens 10:38

Paul Rodden 10:39
Can you go into how the leefh2 system works on that? And what the process that you’re doing in the in the vision that you have, on this product addresses that carbon black, that nasty stuff that comes off of that unburned fuel?

Don Owens 10:58
Right, right, what we are actually doing is we’re using electrolysis, PEM electrolysis very, very clean way of making hydrogen gas, we’re using a little bit of electricity, we’re taking water, we’re splitting the water into hydrogen and oxygen, the oxygen goes to the atmosphere, which is wonderful, because this is helping the planet. But the hydrogen goes into the combustion chamber with the fuel through the air intake. But because it meets the fuel in the air intake hydrogen burns so much faster an order of magnitude than any fuel that’s made. So because it burns so much faster. It makes everything in that combustion chamber burn faster. So as a result, you have less unburned fuel leaving the exhaust.

Paul Rodden 11:46
Faster, hotter, cleaner.

Don Owens 11:49
yeah. And that it would be hotter. But we don’t necessarily want the hotness, it turns out that the hotter it is, it can produce more NOX, you know, Nitrogen Oxides

Paul Rodden 11:59
but it’s just such a small amount of hydrogen that you bring into the system.

Don Owens 12:03
That’s exactly right. It’s such a small amount of hydrogen, that it does not make it burn, it makes that fuel the same fuel, it doesn’t really change the composition of the fuel, it just makes it burn a little bit better. Yeah, so in the combustion chamber, and because it is such a small amount of hydrogen, it’s just making that fuel burn just a little bit faster, such that it creates less unburned fuel. And so consequently, that particulate matter that this guy showed me when he when he came up, say you, your particular matter went down by 50%. It dawned on me later, that unburned fuel is because it’s because it is unburned fuel is making the fuel burn better inside the combustion chamber.

Paul Rodden 12:46
I think that’s one of those eureka moments. Where you’re where you realize, I mean, because you hear internal combustion engines, they’re not that efficient. But that’s what we have. And so then you bring into the question of what there’s fuel cells, there’s battery tech, there’s other systems out there. But what you’ve created is a very, very unique and brilliant system that can take existing engines and make them…

Don Owens 13:19

Paul Rodden 13:20
Vastly cleaner, vastly cleaner, if you don’t mind can we dive into that tech a little bit? Okay, now, the leefh2 system that you’ve built. You’ve got 19 patents on this..

Don Owens 13:34

Paul Rodden 13:34
That’s, that’s amazing. 19 patents on this thing. And as you’ve said, already, it can be used in gas and diesel, basically anything that burns a hydrocarbon.

Don Owens 13:47
Right, right.

Paul Rodden 13:48
But as you’re scaling up right now, you’ve got to be targeting certain industries.

Paul Rodden 13:53

Paul Rodden 13:54
Right now, what are the industries that you’re looking at?

Don Owens 13:58
Okay. And that’s a very good question. Because it turns out, this thing literally applies to anything and everything that burns fuel. And because it does apply to anything, and everything burns fuel, you can have your head spinning around all day if you don’t target something. So we decided to target diesel generators, you know, diesel generators…

Paul Rodden 14:18
which is just brilliant.

Don Owens 14:19
Yeah. Diesel the beauty about diesel generators is unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to look at them. They don’t have anything to abate any of that black carbon or any of that particular matter they just creat it. But they are vital systems, you know, there’s about 17 million of them that are licensed to produce energy throughout the world. So they make a lot of energy because we need the energy, you know, the beauty of the diesel generators, now they have them all shapes and sizes. But the beauty of our system is that we can adapt our system to fit any size engine so that the generator doesn’t move. It just sits there. It’s just sitting there generating power, and using diesel. So we can clean those up. And and there are so many of them. I mean, I think places like Nigeria, I think 80% 80% of all their power comes from diesel generators.

Paul Rodden 15:13

Don Owens 15:14
And that is not uncommon. It is not uncommon at all is, it’s more common than you can imagine, in terms of how people get their electrical power. Now diesel engines are highly efficient also.

Paul Rodden 15:26

Don Owens 15:27
That’s the reason why they use them. I mean, they use less fuel and gasoline for the for the jobs that they perform. But they’re just dirty. You know, because they don’t use a spark. They use compression to compress the fuel. And because of that process, it creates a lot of unburned fuel. And so that’s where our technology comes in. So we can actually make that fuel burn better in the combustion chamber. And yes, we do have 19 patents.

Paul Rodden 15:55
Well, but you had also mentioned that your system works best at idle.

Don Owens 16:04

Paul Rodden 16:04
And that’s effectively what these generators are, all the time,

Don Owens 16:08
all the time

Paul Rodden 16:09
is at idle

Don Owens 16:10
practically at idle all the time. And because you have served certain things like refrigerated truck engines to that run at idle practically all the time, one of the tests that we did conduct when I was doing the testing, something called a 13 mode test was tested different load conditions. One of them was at different RPMs different loads, but it was 13 different modes. And we did this all in the EPA labs where I went, in fact, I can remember when the guy was telling me about the test. He said, well listen Don, we have this test it is 13 modes, you can which mode would you like to test? But it turned out mode number one was idle. And at idle, we saw a 12 and a half percent improvement on fuel economy. No other mode that we see that but we saw it, because at idle, that’s when the engine runs, it’s worse. That’s when the diesel engine is at its worse in terms of efficiency,

Paul Rodden 17:10
which is amazing, because you think about how many diesel engines are in operation around the world. And how many are just sitting at idle all the time, even just just past the refrigeration trucks and the generator trucks, but shipping and freight and everything else that’s sitting in traffic. Right now many of these engines are just sitting in idle.

Don Owens 17:32
That’s right?…

Paul Rodden 17:33
This is a product… Right now I want to stress this right now is viable.

Paul Rodden 17:41
Right. Exactly the right now…

Paul Rodden 17:42
This isn’t something that we’re talking about in 2040 and on this is something we’re talking about this is viable right now,

Don Owens 17:49
Right now. Absolutely. Right now. And you absolutely correct because a number and not only is idle, it a fuel waster is when the most most pollution is produced also, more unburned, fuel more, everything happens at idle.

Paul Rodden 18:06
So you’re not talking about converting diesel engines. This is just an add on. That’s right. The cost has to be pretty minimal cost to just put pem electrolyzer that you have the leef h2 system into operation, it’s got to be pretty minimal, what are your costs on that?

Don Owens 18:28
Well, the cost is, in fact equivalent of what my marketing guy was saying is like changing the set of tires, you know, depending upon what kind of vehicle you got, and and the beauty of the installation is extremely simple. You just bring power to the device, you find a spot for it to sit, there’s a hose that goes out that that carries the hydrogen gas, you put that in the air intake, so that it just naturally goes into the air with the air, and you’ve done.

Paul Rodden 18:58
So the nice thing is that it is not necessarily a computer system, monitoring how much hydrogen is going into the engine. That’s all being taken care of beforehand on your electrolyzer on demand.

Don Owens 19:12
Right, exactly. Yeah, it’s not. And in fact, what we’re doing right now, we want to be careful because, again, a diesel engine is very efficient on its own. So there’s not a big reason to be putting a lot of hydrogen in this efficiency areas, you know, but it turns out even in those 13 modes, where what I talked about, you didn’t see an improvement of fuel on all those modes, but you still saw an improvement or reduction of pm over the entire system over the entire range of 13 modes. It just so happens that at idle is where we saw physically the reduction in fuel usage. And it was it was this when the when the engine runs horribly wrong and Idle

Paul Rodden 20:01

Don Owens 20:02
…well inefficient.

Paul Rodden 20:04
So we’ve talked about some of the stuff that you’re focusing on now initially, the generators, the refrigeration units on trucks. But you’re also thinking big scale talking like shipping tankers and massive applications of this, so that your technology, it’s not just for the F 250s, and the school buses of the world, it’s for shipping tankers,

Don Owens 20:32
right, it’s, it’s for all of them the beauty of the way we are able to produce our hydrogen, and we found in our testing, that there is a ratio of air to hydrogen for almost every engine. So when you have your larger engines, you’re gonna have to produce a little bit more hydrogen to fit within that ratio. But once that ratio is achieved, it can do the exact same thing for every engine no matter what, and some of those big container ships, they have no systems for abating particulate matter, or abating black carbon, they just don’t have them. Because like on some of those smaller engines, the trucks, they can put filters on diesel particulate filters, and they use diesel particulate filters for some of the truck small trucks. But some of those other applications, they can’t put them on it, because it will clog immediately, and then the engine doesn’t run anymore. So you can’t put one of those on a big ship. But the equivalent of one of those tankers, this one is about 13 million vehicles. So the amount of pollution that they produce, and black carbon that they produce is horrific. And they absolutely positively need technology like ours, in order for them to continue running. The reality is that we need them to be running, we can’t take a ship, a ship a container ship and say, Okay, you you can’t run anymore, or you got to park it. No, that’s not going to happen. Yeah, our society requires what we do, shipping is part of it. But the beauty about what our system is, is that is now a solution for those big container ships, such that they can still run still do the things they have to do, but been able to cut the fuel usage, which in and of itself will cut black carbon, plus the fact that it will burn the fuel better that it is using that will the black carbon even more.

Paul Rodden 22:26
Now two things that I want to just tack on real quick, is one when you and I are saying black carbon, okay, we’re not talking about carbon black, we’re not talking about the solid carbon produced from like methane pyrolysis or anything like that. We’re talking about the unburned particulate, coming from diesel and gas engines.

Don Owens 22:47
Exactly right.

Paul Rodden 22:48
That being said, I want to kind of dive into the economics of the leef h2, you’ve got a really unique selling point here. And that it combats climate change, I want to hammer this in, this isn’t something that’s going to be coming down the road, this isn’t a pilot project that’s looking for an fid in 2035. This isn’t something that’s futuristic, this is something that can happen, literally now, a bus company can contact HNO now and get this ball rolling, it’s put in because it’s not just going to increase their ESG portfolio, it’s not just going to do that it’s going to make their systems run more efficient, which is better to their bottom line. But it’s also going to help out on their maintenance.

Don Owens 23:46
Right. That’s right.

Paul Rodden 23:47
So can you kind of talk about how fleet owners can adapt and adopt your technology to help out their bottom line?

Don Owens 23:59
Okay. Yes. In fact, I want to I want to make two points about that unfortunate thing about even moving toward green technologies. There is a fossil fuel infrastructure that’s required even to make green technologies,

Paul Rodden 24:15

Don Owens 24:15
Well, you know, we can’t even get away from the fossil fuel infrastructure. But that fossil fuel infrastructure creates black carbon. And because it creates black carbon, it causes our glaciers to melt. The black carbon is the unburned fuel that gets on the glaciers and causes them to melt. Period. There is nothing else that anybody can point to other than black carbon that’s causing our glaciers to melt. And no one can really dispute the fact that our melting glaciers is the, not one of the, it is the cause for climate change. So what has to be addressed? Now…

Paul Rodden 24:50
It’s like you said it’s the inefficient burning of that byproduct of hydrocarbons.

Don Owens 24:57

Paul Rodden 24:59
You have a solution for that today,

Don Owens 25:02
Today… today, not tomorrow. And so we don’t have to wait for 30 years while we are continuing to use the fossil fuel infrastructure to create all these wonderful things that will happen 30-40 years down the road, we can do that today. Because that fossil fuel infrastructure has to be cleaned up. In order for us to have any shot at addressing climate change.

Paul Rodden 25:27
One of the things that I’d like to highlight here is, in the hydrogen industry, the hydrogen market hydrogen space, everyone talks about the transition to energy transition, right. But so many people in this in this energy transition space are saying, at least in terms of hydrogen, it’s, you know, that we’re burning carbon and their co2, and then all of a sudden, there’s not, and they’re not addressing the actual transition. And even more important than that, is they’re not just addressing the transition, they’re talking about the first steps. That’s where I see your technology as the first step, right? To really reducing a I’m gonna say co2, but you’re we’re also talking about carbon black, that the really destructive byproduct of hydrocarbon burning

Don Owens 26:26
Right, Right…

Paul Rodden 26:26
…being addressed by your technology.

Don Owens 26:28
Right. Exactly, exactly. Because we have a fossil fuel infrastructure we do what one can get away from, you know, I know it out here in California. Everywhere you go, you’re looking at people that are building, clearing land. It’s, there is construction everywhere. If and none of that is electric its all diesel.

Paul Rodden 26:53
I love that you brought that up. Because they’re all Caterpillar designed. excavators, right, endorsers front loaders, right? But there’s nothing necessarily wrong with that. But if you can apply this technology to that, across the globe, across, what are you cleaning up?

Don Owens 27:11
You’re cleaning up a lot, you’re cleaning up a lot. Because with without doing anything, it goes unabated. You know, he’s just you’re not doing anything at all. And and we all know, at least everyone should begin to know. And particularly all the scientists don’t know that black carbon causes the glaciers to melt. Now, most human beings don’t know that. But it wasn’t until years later that I ran across another article about particulate matter and had mentioned it somewhere black carbon, that’s 1500 times worse than co2.

Paul Rodden 27:41
You did some research on this. And you’ve got a book on it. What is it called? Burn fuel better?

Don Owens 27:50

Paul Rodden 27:50
Tell me a little bit about that.

Don Owens 27:52
Okay, the book is about that it is called Burn Fuel Better. And it really came as a result of this astonishing revelation that I’ve made. When it dawned on me that black carbon 1500 times worse than co2, it was a major component of particulate matter, and we cut it in half. And it dawned on me as a wait a minute. This is what’s causing climate change, we can actually address climate change. And this is something really crazy to say that I realized we could actually save the planet? You know, it was it was it was a part of me. And I said, Wait a minute, we can save the planet, save the planet, are you kidding? And I actually expressed this someone I was somebody wanted me to meet a few people, I didn’t know any of them. And I just happened to express that day about what I found that what had hit me. And it turned out that the lady one lady in the audience was a book publisher. And she said, You need to write a book,

Paul Rodden 28:54
How am I gonna get a copy of this?

Paul Rodden 28:56
Okay, you go to you can go to, and the book is all about… It’s all about black carbon, what it does, how it harms us in the fact that we now have hope, against climate change, because it’s called Burn Fuel Better (Let’s see…) from helpless to hopeful in the race against climate change.

Paul Rodden 29:20
I love that. And I mean, really, what I do so much appreciate about what you’re doing in this space, is you’re not making necessarily anyone out to be a villain. This is something that we can all progress forward. Together. These are things that we can all work forward together that, you know, the hydrocarbon industry isn’t necessarily an evil thing. The green industry is not evil, we can work forward together to make cleaner future a reality. And this is a certain technology that can be that first step in progressing that.

Don Owens 29:58
Yeah, absolutely. because, in fact, I have a chapter in there about blaming the oil industry, the oil industry isn’t to blame at all. It’s us, it’s us human beings, we like the fact that we can be comfortable, I can remember, in fact, I have this in a book, I remember sitting in Las Vegas at a hotel, and it was 116 degrees outside 116 degrees outside, and I was in there drinking some tea, or eating some ice cream or something… happy that somebody somewhere was drilling some oil, alright? Because it would not have been comfortable in that hotel. Right, that’s what it was providing some electricity. And that electricity was not made from solar, it was made from fossil fuels. And so I was comfortable in that hotel. And the same thing was going on throughout the world.

Paul Rodden 30:49
Moving forward in the future, leef h2 technology, your technology, to me seems to be that first step, we don’t have to worry about an infrastructure, we don’t have to worry about that for your technology, we can embrace the benefits of hydrogen now without having to worry about right, that infrastructure being developed, we don’t have to worry about fuel cells coming over, you don’t have to worry about buying a Toyota Mirai and not being able to fill it up, right, we can have this infrastructure in place, or we can have your technology in place now. As the infrastructure gets developed, and that is something that I am I am ultimately appreciative of, of your company and your product.

Don Owens 31:36
Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s you’re absolutely right. Because it dawned on me the other day, I mean, we bet even to move into a green economy, or into solar and wind and all the things that can indeed help us to reduce our carbon footprint. We need a fossil fuel infrastructure to build it. Yeah, you know, we can’t even build it without fossil fuel infrastructure, things that we want to do with electric vehicles, all that takes fossil fuel infrastructure, you know, the things that we do to build up a new plant that’s going to make electric vehicles, people still got to drive to those plants, they got to work in those plants, they got to be comfortable when they get to those plants. It’s a fossil fuel infrastructure that is going to make all of that possible. And that fossil fuel infrastructure has got to be cleaned up. Because it will be the part of us or of what we’re doing in order for us even move in that direction.

Paul Rodden 32:36
I love it. Don, thank you so much for being with us. This has been great.

Don Owens 32:41
Thank you for having me.

Paul Rodden 32:43
I very much appreciate it. Now. Where can anyone who’s interested in your technology? Anyone who’s interested in your company? What what website, can they go to work and where canthey go to find out more about this?

Don Owens 32:54
Okay, well, they can go to That’s our website. We are coming up with another website pretty soon HNOinternational. But right now is where you can get the book.

Paul Rodden 33:10
Excellent. Don, thank you so much. And anyone who’s listening now, if you have any questions, comments or concerns about today’s episode, come and visit me at, and let me know. I would really love to hear from you. And as always, take care. Stay safe. I’ll talk to you later. Hey, this is Paul. I hope you liked this podcast. If you did and want to hear more, I’d appreciate it if you would either subscribe to this channel on YouTube, or connect with your favorite platform through my website at Thanks for listening. I very much appreciate it. Have a great day.