INTERVIEW THP18: Buford Barr / New Day Hydrogen – A Guide To Small Scale Modular Hydrogen Hubs For The Transportation Market.

Paul Rodden • Season: 2024 • Episode: SIS18

Listen Now:

>Direct Link To The Hydrogen Podcast MP3<

Listen On Your Favorite App:

Welcome to The Hydrogen Podcast!

Special Interview Series – Buford Barr / New Day Hydrogen – New Day Hydrogen recently was awarded a 9 million dollar grant to install 3 modular fueling stations in Colorado. We invited Buford Barr, the COO of New Day Hydrogen, to come on the show and discuss the recent news and explain the concept behind what they are doing. It is a fascinating interview on how going small in hydrogen can produce big gains. Give it a listen now.

Thank you for listening and I hope you enjoy the podcast. Please feel free to email me at with any questions. Also, if you wouldn’t mind subscribing to my podcast using your preferred platform… I would greatly appreciate it.

Paul Rodden



WANT TO SPONSOR THE PODCAST? Send us an email to:


Start Here: The 6 Main Colors of Hydrogen


Paul Rodden 0:00 Hi, everyone. This is Paul Rodden. I want to welcome you back to the hydrogen Podcast. Today. I’ve asked Buford Barr, the COO of New Day hydrogen, to come to the show and talk about his company and the importance of building out hydrogen infrastructure for the transportation industry in the United States. So let’s queue up the music and the theme song, and I’ll dive right into the interview. Paul Rodden 0:23 So the big questions in the energy industry today are, how is hydrogen the primary driving force behind the evolution of energy? Where is capital being deployed for hydrogen projects globally? And where are the best investment opportunities for early adopters who recognize the importance of hydrogen? I will address the critical issues and give you the information you need to deploy capital. Those are the questions that will unlock the potential of hydrogen. And this podcast will give you the answers. My name is Paul Rodden, and welcome to the hydrogen podcast. Paul Rodden 0:53 Okay, so a lot to talk about today. So let’s get started. First, I want to give you a quick overview of New Day hydrogen. New Day hydrogen is an innovative company making strides in the renewable energy sector specializing in green hydrogen production. They focus on creating modular fueling stations, their technology, the hub starter modular fueling station is designed to be scalable and efficient, emphasizing the production of creating hydrogen on site, utilizing existing power and water. Committed to environmental sustainability, New Day hydrogen aims to revolutionize the hydrogen fuel market, particularly in transportation by offering cleaner, more sustainable energy solutions that have minimal environmental impact. And so with that, Said, Buford, it’s fantastic to have you on the show. Buford Barr 1:43 Paul, thank you. Thank you very much. Very excited to be here. Very excited to talk to your listeners. Paul Rodden 1:47 And it couldn’t be at a better time, I think this whole fueling station, discussion and topic has become really a hot topic issue. And I’m really excited to talk to you about it. Buford Barr 1:57 You know, always, always excited to talk hydrogen to get the word out. And I appreciate the opportunity. Paul Rodden 2:05 Absolutely. Can you share a little bit about your journey to become the COO of New Day hydrogen? Buford Barr 2:11 Yeah, I’ll try and do the short version of that. But pre COVID, I was running all of the capital projects, major midstream energy company. And when COVID hit they did what pretty much all the companies did they cut capital to conserve cash. And when you’re the guy responsible for all their capital programs, and there is no capital doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Maybe it’s time to move on. So So I did just that and decided what do I want to be when I grow up? How do I get to that next step been in the energy industry, my entire career, but I wanted to be where it was going, not where it had been. So did a lot of searching around and ultimately ran into three like minded folks that were kind of on a similar search as me trying to figure out what to do next, how we can, you know, play a role in where energy is going to go. And you know, after a couple of months of thinking about how we could set this up, we really decided we can make a go at this. And in December of 2020, we formed New Day hydrogen, so we are a COVID Baby company. We’ve been working ever since trying to establish hydrogen fueling stations here in Colorado, where we’re based, but really beyond really all across North America. Paul Rodden 3:23 Awesome. So New Day hydrogen is making strides in the hydrogen transportation industry. Can you tell us about the company’s core mission? And what sets you apart in this field? Buford Barr 3:33 Yeah, you know, there, there are a lot of folks that are working in this in hydrogen fueling hydrogen infrastructure space, really, what differentiates us I guess, is a couple of things. One, we’re focused on commercial fleets. We see them as the early movers into that space. If you think about it, if I’ve got, for example, one station in the entirety of Colorado, you as a private vehicle owner probably aren’t going to run out and buy a hydrogen vehicle, it simply doesn’t support how you use a vehicle. But for a commercial fleet that can work that out and back, you know, can support their needs. That allows us to establish these nodes, start connecting them together, grow it into an ecosystem, and then all of a sudden, we start having enough coverage where others can enter into that space. So that that’s definitely one of the differences for us as focusing on those commercial fleets. The other two, if you look to the California market, they basically are one of their lessons learned was that they should build big, always build big, big stations. And we heard that lesson loud and clear. And we decided to build small, we thought the approach that they were taking didn’t make sense as you’re growing into these new areas in areas that currently don’t have hydrogen fueling established. So we basically have scaled our station down to the point where it’s a small station requiring a minimal number of vehicles to underpin it to get it going. Our focus is is to establish the market and to do that we need smaller scale to kick it off to start going down that pathway. So small scale is a differentiator for us. The other is basically generating hydrogen on site. Once again, looking back to California, the vast majority of the stations out there are based off a delivered hydrogen. But pretty much at any point in time, every one of those is run dry, because of supply chain issues. So we’re looking at it, if we could generate the hydrogen on site, we can control that supply chain to the greatest extent possible, thereby making the station’s just that much more reliable for our customers. We understand if we’re not reliable if we’re not up and running. Basically, our customers have bought a very expensive paperweight. And we don’t want to do that. Paul Rodden 5:43 You had some news recently. And I think congratulations are in order, you received federal funding. And you launched the new hydrogen refueling stations in Colorado and you got the funding for that. Can you tell us a little bit more about that announcement and how it’s significant for New Day hydrogen? Buford Barr 5:58 We’re very excited about that. So New Day hydrogen, in association with the Colorado State University System was awarded a grant under the DoT charging and fueling Infrastructure Grant Program. And what that’s allowing us to do is to establish three fueling stations in close proximity to the CSU campuses along the I 25. corridor in Colorado. So that may north south corridor that splits the state on the north half in Fort Collins, more central in the Denver GlobeVille area, and then on the southern ended Pueblo, so establishing the first public facing hydrogen fueling stations in the state of Colorado. So we’re very excited about that. But one of the other components of this grant was there’s a workforce development component that we’re very excited about, I feel very confident that we can establish these three stations as we are currently set up. But to grow this market beyond that we need, we need that workforce really to be established and start to take off. And that’s really what excites me a lot about this grant program. And that association with CSU is the development of the workforce allowing that to basically start feeding into this to this burgeoning market, both here in Colorado and beyond. Really, I think and I hope setting up Colorado as kind of a leader in the establishment of the folks that will be taking this to the into the next generation. As far as where you know what this means to New Day I mean, really, this is a difference maker for us. Really, it sets us up well, to kick off the hydrogen market here in Colorado beyond, it really provides a certain level of validation of our design approach. And it really solidly establishes us in this market. This is a huge difference maker. We’re very excited about this. Paul Rodden 7:46 As you should be. And so as you’re expanding on these three are fueling stations, kind of more big picture, how do you foresee this impacting the accessibility and adoption of hydrogen in Colorado? Buford Barr 8:01 Well, first steps first, right? You’ve got to start establishing the infrastructure for any of this to start getting to start to take off, we’re dealing with this chicken in the egg scenario, you know, all over the place, why would I go buy a hydrogen vehicle? If there’s no infrastructure? Why would I establish infrastructure, if they’re not, there are no vehicles. What this grant allows us to do is it allows us to establish that infrastructure a little earlier than we would otherwise would be capable of doing allows us to get that in and running allows us to work the demand side with our with our fleet customers, aligning those two together, one of our my partner’s always made reference to it’s kind of like Thanksgiving dinner, it all has to come together at the same time, the grant program allows us to maybe push off the demand side a little bit and get that the supply side established up and running, and really move that market forward. So we’re excited about where this is going to go. And we really think this is going to be the start of the establishment of a hydrogen market here in Colorado. Paul Rodden 9:00 I think so too, it’s got to start somewhere in that, I think how you laid it out there with with the government funding, you’re able to establish that you don’t really have to worry about that chicken and egg scenario, you can get something on the ground. And it’s one of those if you build it, they will come type things, getting more infrastructure to come in. What were some of the challenges or considerations involved in securing funding for those stations? And how did you overcome those? Buford Barr 9:24 Yeah, we get similar responses to what most startups get you too early or too small, you know, fill in the blank, et cetera. But on top of that, there’s the perception that the transportation industry has already been determined as to which direction they’re going to go. Battery electrics have already won case closed. And the reality is, we don’t believe that’s the case. We’re big supporters of battery electric vehicles. We think they are ideal fits for those areas where they fit in well within the use case. But we do not believe that they cover all use cases. And that’s where we think hydrogen really can play a significant role. as a complement to battery electrics, not as a competition to, we’ve really spent a significant amount of time explaining hydrogen, getting people to understand what it is what it isn’t, it is not a silver bullet, if anyone comes in trying to sell you a silver bullet, silver bullet, they are lying to you. But it is once again, very complementary solution to a lot of of the solutions that we already have underway. So we think he can play that significant role. Unfortunately, the education process is not a fast process takes a lot of repetition, it takes a lot of times of repeating that same message to folks before it starts sinking in, we believe very strongly that that is starting to sink in. And once again, with the DoT awarding this grant to us and CSU, we think that provides us a significant amount of validation to what we’re doing. And hopefully it takes all of that effort we’ve tried on the education side, and really pushes some folks, you know, over the edge towards Hey, this could be an option for me. Paul Rodden 11:01 I’m really intrigued about your technology in the hub starter, modular fueling station. Can you explain how it works the tech behind it, and I think the audience would also really be interested if you can go into the some of the specifics on the economics behind making it work. Buford Barr 11:17 Okay, let me start with kind of what hub starter is, you know, hub starter, as we’ve been talking about is a hydrogen fueling station small scale, as I indicated earlier, but really what it boils down to is hub starters and modular design, you know, think shipping containers 40 feet long eight by eight. One of those containers contains the electrolyzer the hydrogen generation itself. One of those containers contains the compression and the storage. And then one container which ends up being a half container 20 foot long, contains all of our controls in our dispensing those three together make up Hubstarter, so very small, really, ultimately configurable in any way that makes the most sense relative to the property it’s being installed on, we could go pretty much anywhere, as long as we have power and water to hook it up. You know, it we’re designing off site fabricating off site to be brought on site, and I’m oversimplifying a little bit, dropped in connected up, we’re ready to go. But you know, that’s the intention of hub starter is it’s it’s a very simple, straightforward plugin, you know, type of a design, the scale is small, both in a footprint and a generating. And we think it aligns very nicely with where the market is. And then as the market grows, we can basically stack these to align well as our customers grow as that market grows. So we think that, you know, that sets up well, as I indicated, we’re generating the hydrogen on site. And we’re doing that through electrolysis. And really, what electrolysis is, is you’re taking, you’re taking water and you’re cracking it into its constituent components, you’re getting hydrogen, h2, and you’re getting oxygen, the out, we don’t have current use for the for the oxygen, so we’re actually venting that. That is the the direct emissions from our station is oxygen, but we’re capturing the hydrogen, we compress it, we store it, and basically at that point, it’s ready to go. As far as you know, filling up a vehicle. As far is the economics, what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to have the economics and when I talk economics, really, I’m talking about the price of hydrogen, because that’s ultimately what our customers are concerned about. What we’re trying to do is we’re trying to align between what we consider to be two bookends on the high end is roughly $16 A kilogram. We talk in hydrogen world, we talk in kilograms, just to confuse everybody in the US $16 A kilogram, which is which is roughly what we see as the historical California market. Right now, the California market is way out of whack. They are over $30 A kilogram, we don’t see that as realistic or sustainable, to be honest with you. So we’re targeting that high end 16. The low end is really what we’re targeting as diesel parody. And I’ll explain that in a second, which we’re targeting is roughly $10 A kilogram. The reason $10 A kilogram is that rough diesel parody is, especially in the medium duty vehicles right now, the heavy duties it’s going to take a little bit longer, but the prognosticators indicate that by the end of the decade, we should see the efficiencies of the heavy duty fuel cells be roughly equivalent to the medium duty so you’re talking roughly a 2x efficiency level relative to total combustion engine. So the amount of energy and a kilogram of hydrogen is about the same as the amount of energy in a gallon of gasoline. But you’re able to go twice as far on that same amount of energy. So to make the math easy, $5 a gallon roughly equivalent to $10 a kilogram of hydrogen Paul Rodden 14:47 That makes sense and I like I like that that simple, nothing anyone can really understand that. Buford Barr 14:51 I can so Paul Rodden 14:55 if I can get it then anyone can. Innovation is key in fast evolving. industries like this, what are some of the latest advancements that New Day hydrogen is going to utilize with your hydrogen technology? Buford Barr 15:08 Yeah. And really just like what we’re seeing with batteries, we are seeing quite an evolution in the technology related to the electrolyzers. And then the fuel cells that are on the vehicles themselves, we see all of this really advancing in leaps and bounds. And really, it’s why at this point in time, we’ve really been somewhat, we are not tying ourselves down to a specific brand, a specific manufacturer, because we do understand that the the first stations that we put in will be the least efficient, most costly stations that we ever put in, we envision and and really everybody in the prognosticators that are out there all forecasts that you’re going to see, as this industry scales up, the efficiency levels within within those units, and the cost per unit are going to go down dramatically. And we’re already seeing that start happening. So we haven’t necessarily married ourselves to a specific technology a specific US manufacturer, because that it’s simply evolving too quickly, you know, but you know, we are continually monitoring that, and we’re excited in the direction this is going because what it does is allows us to be more efficient, lower costs allows us to drive down the cost of that hydrogen. Now we are we are, you know, looking at, you know, other technology providers, you know, if you think sensors, controls, those types of things that we can utilize within our stations, and really looking at that as some of the technology advancements that we’re going to do near term as the bigger technology, the electrolyzers continue to evolve. But those sensors, those, those controls, really being the current evolution, you know, to make our stations as safe, as reliable as we possibly could be. Paul Rodden 16:45 Would you mind talking… And you touched on this a little bit… But would you mind talking about new days business model and the type of clients that you’re looking for, to continue to build out the refueling station infrastructure? Buford Barr 16:56 As I pointed out earlier, if you look to the California market, the California market is predominantly one of light duty vehicles, we simply don’t see the light duty vehicles, those private passenger vehicles, being the early movers into this market. And I went into some detail in regards to why in regards to that, we’ll see the commercial fleets as being the likely first movers into that space. And the conversations we’re having with fleets here in Colorado and beyond, are really indicative of that. You know, most of them are looking at Battery electrics, they’re looking at fuel cell electrics, they’re trying to figure out, how do they fit within this evolution towards zero emissions. And to be honest with you, they’re a little they’re little stumped, they’re being asked challenged with move away from a technology that you know extremely well, and that move into something that you’re not familiar with at all. And oh, by the way, do it fast do it now. So what we’re trying to offer up to them is that you have an option, and we see hydrogen as an option that aligns really nicely with what they’re used to. On the diesel side, if you think about it, that same quick refueling that similar range that you get with a diesel, you can get that with hydrogen as well. Yeah, so you end up with the same operating parameters as those vehicles, you’re simply getting in, in a true zero emission vehicle, the only emission is water vapor, and you’re getting it in a true electric vehicle. These are electric vehicles driven by the same electric motors that battery electrics are simply it’s powered by a tank of hydrogen instead of a big heavy battery pack. So really, we see those clients, those commercial fleets, those municipalities, transit agencies, we really see those as being the first movers into that space. Paul Rodden 18:42 Speaking of fleet operators, I really would love to hear your strategy for getting the fleet operators to adopt hydrogen into their business, what do you think is a good model for them to adopt to transition their fleet to hydrogen? Buford Barr 18:55 You know, unfortunately, in a lot of cases, most of the most of what is being put out there is okay fleet operator, we want you to convert all of your fleet today. And it’s simply not realistic. You know, we look at it as these guys have a huge challenge in front of them as to how they’re going to do this. They have their own budgets, they have their own vehicle replacement schedules, we simply look at it as hey, let’s align with those. So you’ve got 100 vehicle fleet, that’s great. You’re not going to convert 100 vehicles tomorrow, you’re going to follow your replacement schedule, and maybe that’s maybe you replaced 10 vehicles a year. You know, so that, you know, would you be willing to commit you know, to five to 10 to hydrogen, it’s more of a dipping your toe into the space as opposed to diving in headfirst. And we also look at it with our stations, we need roughly 10 to 15 medium duty trucks to underpin our station. That’s really where we need to be. We don’t look at it as our preference is to have multiple fleets underpinning that. So think five fleets with two to three vehicles each, as opposed to one fleet that provides all 15 vehicles. We look at it this way as we’re de risking the position of our customers. By doing that, we’re allowing them once again to dip their toe not dive in Paul Rodden 20:16 Scalability, market penetration are both crucial for success. What short term and long term strategies are you employing to achieve those goals? Buford Barr 20:27 Okay. Scalability is huge, obviously, you know, and it’s interesting for us because Hub starter is, is a scale is typically on a small scale. And we built it up purposely at that scale, because we think that aligns with where the market is. So for us, scalability really comes down to as our customers decide to add additional hydrogen vehicles as that market continues to grow. The simple approach is we can stack stations, and we can add additional capability at that site, eventually, you’re going to outgrow that capability. So at that point, we were in the process of basically developing an on site build station for those particular locations. So if you think about it, this becomes an evolution from a more temporary nature up to a permanent structure setup. And what that what that allows us to do is it allows us to take that hub starter and relocate it and put it into one of the you know new growth areas, once again, seeding that market allowing that market has started establishing and moving forward. So we see this, you know, scalability as we’re going to start small scale up. But as we scale up, we’re going to continue to take those units that we did develop first, and move those further out, you know, being able to develop further areas continuing to grow out that market. Paul Rodden 20:55 And building on that partnerships can be critical. Are there any collaborations or partnerships that you’ve been particularly influential that have been particularly influential for new day? Buford Barr 22:01 The reality for us is nobody could do all this alone. Partnerships is really what we all need in order to make this work. And we’re we’re very excited about the partnerships we’ve been able to develop. If we look at the charging and fueling infrastructure grant that we that we put together with, with CSU, we put together what we believe was a very good application. But those are simply table stakes. That simply gets you in the door. What we think differentiated our program from others was the wide support that we got from Colorado, from the political leaders to the potential fleets. And really what most excites me is we got a lot of support from the local communities as well. These are community leaders that in a lot of cases have been areas that have been somewhat forgotten, you know, somewhat somewhat of a dumping ground. They’ve been very excited about what we’ve, what we’re trying to do very supportive of what we’re trying to do. We’re very proud of the fact that they are actively working with us to bring our facility into their neighborhood that’s been amazing to work with that kind of a group. But beyond that, like I said that we think that really was the differentiator. We think that’s why we won the grant. Beyond that we have developed partnerships outside of the…, the grant specifics, we developed a partnership with QuanTron is a vehicle manufacturer, truck manufacturer based in Germany, but they now have a US subsidiary that has a facility up in Auburn Hills, Michigan. So they’re basically going to be building fuel cell electric trucks. So think anywhere from the big class 8, the semi trucks down to a class three or four more of a utility truck type of type of the vehicle, we’ve got a partnership with them, where we’re basically providing a hydrogen as a service, where we’re addressing both the fueling infrastructure side and the vehicle side for our customers. The partnership with CSU has been invaluable talked about the workforce development that really has been key to what we’re trying to do moving you know, moving this market forward, our association with the Clean Cities programs, if your listeners aren’t familiar, this is a DoE program, really across the US for these are the guides that are are basically local experts relative to all of the alternative fuels. They have been great to work with as we move into new geographic areas. They’ve been very helpful with us to point us in the right direction, they really have been a great partner for us as we’re continuing to try and grow this out. Our loi customers are letters of intent. We’ve moved our letters of support in some cases, up to a letter of intent, which is a if you want to think about it’s an agreement that kind of lays out the relationship between the parties and we’ve been able to establish that very proud of this with global brands like fluid truck. fluid truck is a commercial truck share platform, AAA Colorado, via mobility services. They’re local to the Colorado area, but they provide transit and paratransit services, and then to Colorado car share not really wasn’t really intended as one of our target areas. But as a car share service, it really does align with the benefits of hydrogen. So we’re really proud of those relationships. And I guess lastly, on the partnership level we’ve been stunned isn’t the right word, we’ve been very happy that the very small arena that is hydrogen, it’s full of a lot of companies that are very supportive of each other. While you would term us competition, we all realize that this market has the potential to grow well beyond the capabilities of any one of us to take this. It’s been great working with those competitiors, trying to figure out how can we work together to better to move this market forward to better the sport for our customers. So really, as you indicated, partnerships are key, we are working hard to develop partnerships every step along the way. Paul Rodden 25:50 I think that’s a great attitude to have to really, you know, looking at others who would be competitors, just more in terms of working together to promote the industry and move it forward. We can worry about competition later. And you brought up politics earlier. And and so in terms of making an impact, what role has new day hydrogen played in shaping policies or perspectives on hydrogen energy within Colorado’s political sphere, Buford Barr 26:17 We’ve been very proud of what we what we think we’ve been able to accomplish here. When we first started, Colorado was not very open to hydrogen, Colorado soon after we were established Colorado put out the greenhouse gas emissions roadmap, and it basically laid out that, you know, there’s, there’s a role for hydrogen, but it’s very limited, really, if you want to think coast to coast movement of goods, you know, via heavy duty trucks. And that was really it. Yeah, that thinking has evolved. And really, we have been in a lot of effort down the educational pathway. And the nice thing here in Colorado is our political leaders have been willing to listen, and we’ve seen an evolution within within Colorado’s thinking they’ve established the let’s see, the hydrogen roadmap, which basically further established saying heavy duty is great, but we see it the O kind of trickling down into the medium duty as well. So we’re seeing an evolution, a movement in the thinking of the state of Colorado, that hey, hydrogen can play a role, admittedly, a complementary role, which we agree 100% With to battery electrics, but can play a role, really, across the vehicle classifications, it really boils down to how to use the vehicle as to which solution lines best for you. So we’ve been very proud, we think we’ve had a role there been plenty of others that have had played a part in that as well. But you know, we’ve been very excited about the evolution of the stance of Colorado, towards hydrogen and the role that hydrogen can play in transportation. Paul Rodden 27:49 I talked about transportation a lot on the show. And I probably make a lot of people sick with how much I bring it up. But looking ahead, how do you see hydrogen shaping that future of transportation? Buford Barr 28:00 So the future of transportation, you know, and as we, as you and I have talked about, everything we’ve been talking about really has been just a small component of that transportation, really, it’s been the on road transportation, hydrogen can play a significant role beyond that, you know, if you think the off road transportation component, if you think construction warehouses, container lifters, those kinds of things, hydrogen can play a really, really significant role in those and there are several entities that are currently working on establishing hydrogen vehicles that provide the the vehicular support within those areas, think aviation there are several players that are, you know, at work on the aviation side of things, both within the the support vehicles that support the at the airports, but also into the planes themselves. There are several companies that have pilots, pardon the pun, but pilots that are up there working right now that are flying on hydrogen, you move into trains, Europe has several programs that are out there, right now, hydrogen trains, and even in on the marine side of things where you’re starting to see there’s a hydrogen ferry to give us in San Francisco that’s running, there are several hydrogen fueled support vessels that are, you know, it use in the ports. And then even if you think bigger, you know, the cruise ships, the cross ocean container ships, a lot of folks are looking at either hydrogen directly or indirectly through a hydrogen carrier such as ammonia or methanol, or those kinds of things. So we really see a role where hydrogen can play a significant place really across the spectrum of transportation. And all we’ve been talking about, here’s a small slice of that just the on road vehicle vehicular side. Paul Rodden 29:42 Right.. This is one of the questions that I love asking anyone that I’m in or that I’m interviewing, can you share your predictions for the hydrogen market and any industry trends that we should be looking out for in 2024 and 2025? Paul Rodden 29:56 Let me let me start out by looking a little further beyond that. The doE’s hydrogen hub program, you know, just got announced, awarding, you know, literally billions to several entities really across this the US to establish basically utility scale supply and demand for hydrogen, what that’s going to do or what that should do as we as we go to that scale, as it should drive the price of hydrogen down, you know, what’s one of the complexities that we’ve got right now is the price of hydrogen. So once those get up and established that really should, you know, super fueled the hydrogen market is that takes off. But the reality at that scale, it’s going to be 10 years before those are really up and running, in my opinion, just because of the of the literal scale that you’re talking about. For those facilities, it takes time to build something like that. So really, I look at 24 and 25, you know, this, this near term, is really going to be more geared towards I think more in line with what we’re trying to do these smaller seed type stations that are establishing in these new geographic areas, starting to establish the hydrogen market, and then starting to grow the ecosystem out from there. I think that aligns perfectly well with the, with the hydrogen hub concept that we get an early we start establishing this market. So when the hub’s come in, the public isn’t scared of hydrogen, they’re not the other first reaction isn’t the Hindenburg, they’ve seen hydrogen, I’d love to get to the point. Remember, when Tesla’s first came into the market, everyone pointed every time you pass the Tesla. Now you don’t point it all because they’re everywhere. I want hydrogen vehicles to get to that level. Yeah, I want them to be to the point where they’re out there enough that they’re not even exciting to look at. And that’s what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to plant that seed to start that initial growth to get to that point, but 24 and 25. Really, I see us kicking off these early projects, trying to get into these new geographic areas, trying to establish these early markets. Paul Rodden 32:01 What are the long term goals and visions for New Day hydrogen, particularly in the transportation sector? Buford Barr 32:07 You know, we really view ourselves as a hydrogen project development company, but we really see transportation as low hanging fruit. And that’s really why we’re focused right now on transportation, because we see that as being one of the early movers into the hydrogen market. So let’s start near term. So nearer term is simply going to be we’re going to implement this this grant program that we’ve got, we’re going to establish the three, the three stations that we’ve established through the grant, we’re going to get those up and running, start establishing that, that ecosystem here in Colorado, then we’re going to take the momentum from there. And we’re basically going to continue to grow out from there. We do have a pipeline in place, a project pipeline that we’ve been developing over the last couple of years. And we’ve had some great conversations in other parts of the US relative to hydrogen stations to support transportation, the Pacific Northwest, extending that i Five corridor up from California all the way to Vancouver. There’s definitely a lot of interest up there. And we’re in conversations with several folks to try and get those established. They did Atlantic Seacoast Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, a lot of interest out there, you know, in regards to hydrogen for transportation, so we’re trying to kick off some projects there as well, even up into Michigan, just seems so appropriate that Michigan play a role in this as Michigan is the heart of our of our car culture, you know, but Michigan is very interested in in playing a role in the growth of hydrogen, and then even to our neighbors to the north that Canada has been very aggressive moving towards hydrogen. We’ve got a Canadian partner that we’re working with up there, that we’re trying to establish the projects up there. So really near term, we’re going to get these these projects up and running here in Colorado, longer term, we’re going to start turning these conversations that we’ve had into implementable projects and start getting those onto the ground seeding these other geographic areas, kicking off these other hydrogen markets. Paul Rodden 34:03 That’s awesome. I’m, I’m I can’t wait to see this just take off. This has been an incredible conversation. I’m very appreciative of the time and effort that you’ve put into helping create this blueprint to shape the future of the hydrogen transportation industry. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today. Buford Barr 34:22 Paul, I appreciate the opportunity. I appreciate what you guys do. I mean, so much is getting the word out about hydrogen. So you know, the opportunity to get on to speak about what we’re trying to do. It really isn’t valuable. So appreciate that. And we’ll we’ll continue to talk and continue to move the hydrogen market forward. Paul Rodden 34:39 Absolutely. All right, everyone, I would like to thank you for for joining me today to discuss his views on the hydrogen industry. If you’d like to learn more, you can check out New Day hydrogen’s website at to see everything they have going on. Thanks again. And I hope you have a great day. Take care. Hey, this is Paul. I hope you liked This podcast if you did want to hear more I’d appreciate it if you would either subscribe to this channel on YouTube or connect with your favorite platform through my website at Thanks for listening. I very much appreciate it. Have a great day.